I’ll bite. I think there are a lot of people like me, who have no problem with adults who want to adopt the opposite sex. We do have a problem with adults who push drag queens and puberty blockers on children.
Well I think that’s in line with what I’m saying. People view different campaigns differently. There’s no rule that says you can push any perspective no matter how extreme and you’ll eventually convince people, but activists implicitly think there is
I’d say prohibition is an example of how a determined minority that refuses to give up can get what they want. I don’t believe persuasion is the game here. But the extreme lefties don’t understand yet that there are now equally stubborn people on the other side
I agree but also note that Prohibition was an unmitigated failure, achieving only the criminalization of the bulk of the American populace and a concomitant disrespect for the law by rational, average people. To your point and Conor's, I believe.
It's the blatant Lying to your face that does it for me. You can't actually change your sex. I had always thought it must be possible to accommodate trans people without literally dismantling biological reality to do so.
The problem is social liberalism has no brakes. It reminds me of some Congress hearings(? Correct term, idk) on Roe v Wade. Bear in mind something like 70% of Americans support first trimester abortions, which solves 90% of the problem.as that's when 90% of abortions take place. What does the Democrat spokesperson do, only refuse to rule out abortions at the point of birth and state flatly men can get pregnant.
I used to laugh at conservative minded people going on about the slippery slope, there's not many laughing now
In Irish law, (Gender Recognition Act 2015), one actually changes SEX by self declaration. How any AG allowed the words “sex” and “gender” to be used interchangeably is beyond me. The act also uses male & man, and woman & female interchangeably. While some (not me) might have conceded the word “woman” - the upshot of the act is that there is now no single word to describe an actual biological woman. Men can legally call themselves “female”. It’s so ludicrous that not even a hungover 1st year Law student could have let it through legislation. It must have been deliberate.
Have a Google for the Dentons document. A dense document from a law firm advising NGO's how to operate. It lays out the strategy for sliding the legislation in under the radar. Top tip - tie it into more popular reforms. Here it was brought in with gay marriage. Despite the oceans of news ink and nodding heads on TV about gay marriage there wasn't a peep about the GRA . May be they never thought more than a handful would ever avail of it?
A man could avail himself of women's rights in this country before a woman could avail of abortion. But quick look over there - nuns from 60 years ago!!
Hope you all saw a Regina Doherty’s embarrassing performance in Scotland last week? Advising the government there on self ID without bothering to arm herself with one single fact, piece of research, evidence, impact study… nothing. She didn’t even know how many self ID certs have been issued. She told them “Ireland has 9 genders”.
Somehow the worst bit was when she claimed young people are so very accepting, her 15 Yr old corrects her. Why would a senior politician, an adult with 3 times the life experience accept correction from a teen with tik tok takes? There's something about the lionisation of youth going on here too, connected with
the refusal to grow up or grow old or face mortality. An aging population, a lack of faith in religion to giving age and death that extra dread. I'm digressing but I can't stop chewing that bit of gristle.
Not trying to take away from all the other gnarly mouthfuls
Keep chewing that gristle. You’re going somewhere with that idea. Certainly it seems there’s a dinosaurs-trying-to-stay relevant element and religiosity for sure. Did you read Colette Colfer’s article?
Yes I know about the Denton’s doc but the language sleight of hand seems to have been all our own. Scotland snd England have been pouring over the language used…. Gender, sex, male, female, gender identity v gender reassignment etc.. No such carelessness and slapdashery over there.
True. For example I support legal abortion but not the sale of baby parts. Have no problem with adults who want to change their gender. But puberty blockers for kids ? No way. Both are money makers, but where are the cries about cruel capitalism over these issues?
Capitalism is good, ackshually, when it comes to women and children being exploited - look at commercial surrogacy and prostitution as well. I'm gone very cynical
I don’t really have a problem with people who exploit themselves. It’s a tough one. If a poor woman wants to rent her womb, is it any of my business? At the same time I couldn’t stand being in the same room with anyone who would pay her to do it.
I'll dust off the old canard; New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael's disbelief at Richard Nixon's reelection in 1972, saying "I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don’t know. They’re outside my ken."
A similar logic attends the refusal of the US political and cultural elite to accept what Occam's Razor dictates; Donald Trump was the preferred presidential candidate of roughly 50% of the electorate two times running. No, it had to be Russian skulduggery -- reality hurts too much when it doesn't go your way.
I’ll bite. I think there are a lot of people like me, who have no problem with adults who want to adopt the opposite sex. We do have a problem with adults who push drag queens and puberty blockers on children.
Well I think that’s in line with what I’m saying. People view different campaigns differently. There’s no rule that says you can push any perspective no matter how extreme and you’ll eventually convince people, but activists implicitly think there is
I’d say prohibition is an example of how a determined minority that refuses to give up can get what they want. I don’t believe persuasion is the game here. But the extreme lefties don’t understand yet that there are now equally stubborn people on the other side
I agree but also note that Prohibition was an unmitigated failure, achieving only the criminalization of the bulk of the American populace and a concomitant disrespect for the law by rational, average people. To your point and Conor's, I believe.
It's the blatant Lying to your face that does it for me. You can't actually change your sex. I had always thought it must be possible to accommodate trans people without literally dismantling biological reality to do so.
The problem is social liberalism has no brakes. It reminds me of some Congress hearings(? Correct term, idk) on Roe v Wade. Bear in mind something like 70% of Americans support first trimester abortions, which solves 90% of the problem.as that's when 90% of abortions take place. What does the Democrat spokesperson do, only refuse to rule out abortions at the point of birth and state flatly men can get pregnant.
I used to laugh at conservative minded people going on about the slippery slope, there's not many laughing now
The slippery slope is that the word woman is now transphobic unless it is being used to describe a man.
In Irish law, (Gender Recognition Act 2015), one actually changes SEX by self declaration. How any AG allowed the words “sex” and “gender” to be used interchangeably is beyond me. The act also uses male & man, and woman & female interchangeably. While some (not me) might have conceded the word “woman” - the upshot of the act is that there is now no single word to describe an actual biological woman. Men can legally call themselves “female”. It’s so ludicrous that not even a hungover 1st year Law student could have let it through legislation. It must have been deliberate.
Have a Google for the Dentons document. A dense document from a law firm advising NGO's how to operate. It lays out the strategy for sliding the legislation in under the radar. Top tip - tie it into more popular reforms. Here it was brought in with gay marriage. Despite the oceans of news ink and nodding heads on TV about gay marriage there wasn't a peep about the GRA . May be they never thought more than a handful would ever avail of it?
A man could avail himself of women's rights in this country before a woman could avail of abortion. But quick look over there - nuns from 60 years ago!!
Hope you all saw a Regina Doherty’s embarrassing performance in Scotland last week? Advising the government there on self ID without bothering to arm herself with one single fact, piece of research, evidence, impact study… nothing. She didn’t even know how many self ID certs have been issued. She told them “Ireland has 9 genders”.
Somehow the worst bit was when she claimed young people are so very accepting, her 15 Yr old corrects her. Why would a senior politician, an adult with 3 times the life experience accept correction from a teen with tik tok takes? There's something about the lionisation of youth going on here too, connected with
the refusal to grow up or grow old or face mortality. An aging population, a lack of faith in religion to giving age and death that extra dread. I'm digressing but I can't stop chewing that bit of gristle.
Not trying to take away from all the other gnarly mouthfuls
Keep chewing that gristle. You’re going somewhere with that idea. Certainly it seems there’s a dinosaurs-trying-to-stay relevant element and religiosity for sure. Did you read Colette Colfer’s article?
Yes I know about the Denton’s doc but the language sleight of hand seems to have been all our own. Scotland snd England have been pouring over the language used…. Gender, sex, male, female, gender identity v gender reassignment etc.. No such carelessness and slapdashery over there.
True. For example I support legal abortion but not the sale of baby parts. Have no problem with adults who want to change their gender. But puberty blockers for kids ? No way. Both are money makers, but where are the cries about cruel capitalism over these issues?
Capitalism is good, ackshually, when it comes to women and children being exploited - look at commercial surrogacy and prostitution as well. I'm gone very cynical
I don’t really have a problem with people who exploit themselves. It’s a tough one. If a poor woman wants to rent her womb, is it any of my business? At the same time I couldn’t stand being in the same room with anyone who would pay her to do it.
It’s unlikely the woman has any agency in the decision to “rent her womb” (and risk her life) in most cases.
I'll dust off the old canard; New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael's disbelief at Richard Nixon's reelection in 1972, saying "I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don’t know. They’re outside my ken."
A similar logic attends the refusal of the US political and cultural elite to accept what Occam's Razor dictates; Donald Trump was the preferred presidential candidate of roughly 50% of the electorate two times running. No, it had to be Russian skulduggery -- reality hurts too much when it doesn't go your way.
I think of that quote often