I’m the same age as you and emigrated from Ireland in 2012. I haven’t been back since before Covid, but even based on text message interactions with friends back home I can sense how they have changed over the last decade. From afar (I live in Southeast Asia) it’s easy to see that the last ten years have amounted to a cultural revolution unprecedented in Irish history, but my impression is that most people living there aren’t even that aware of it. The country is now merely a cultural satellite state of the US, complete with Black Lives Matter marches etc., so it’s interesting to see what happens when economic reality collides with an ideology that was created in another country with a completely different history.
Conor, how much of this can be attributed to the possibility that the Irish, politically speaking, are insecure about themselves and their cultural story? The cultural conformity seems to be a function of an inferiority complex.
I believe you are guilty of exceptionalism and a lack of comparative perspective here Conor. Consensus is the fundamental building block of any social order or grouping of people. It is the essence of democracy and even authoritarian governments, such as those of the UAE, Russia, Cuba or China, must be careful to monitor and manage consensus so as to avoid unrest. To talk of "consensus collapse" in Ireland therefore is inaccurate. Where there is little or no consensus, you get Somalia, revolution, and mass migrations of disaffected people. In stable polities such as Ireland, consensus is, and always must be, constantly in flux to facilitate external and internal change influences.
Historically, one can see how changes in consensus, and the rapidity thereof, have been influenced by developments in the nature of communication and media. First messengers, then books and newspapers, then radio and TV, and now the internet and social media have been instrumental in altering mores and beliefs and the speed at which these changes have happened has increased exponentially. Newspapers such as The Guardian were founded with the express intent of challenging contemporary social and political beliefs while, today, blogs such as yours are intended to play the exact same role but whereas you reach readers across the world instantly, in 1821 The Guardian reached few people outside Manchester and over a period of days and weeks.
As media and communication systems have developed, it has become possible to disseminate increasingly alternative and controversial viewpoints and minorities, even individuals, have great power to make themselves heard and to influence consensus across a plethora of issues, with both good and bad results (depending on our perspective, of course).
The catholic church, and its associated belief systems, constituted the core institutional influence on Irish society for centuries but, as the society developed, the benefits of adhering to the strictures laid down by the church, and overlooking its shortcomings, waned in favor of a critical stance on this institution and its influence. Similarly, while there was broad consensus that it was the right thing to agree to accept thousands of Ukrainian refugees in 2022, public opinion has shifted as the negative implications of this influx have begun to be felt. I got into serious trouble in 1978 for proposing that an inter-college debate address the question that Ireland should be given back to the Queen with an apology for making such a mess. I was nearly expelled. Today, the topic would be irrelevant.
You argue that going against the reigning consensus in Ireland is especially difficult due to the size of the country but I would suggest you reconsider this view from the perspective of a gay person in Uganda, a Dalit in an Indian village, a Republican academic in an ivy league university, a woman who does not want to cover her head in Iran, or a pro-choice activist in Brazil.
Swimming against the tide is never easy but Irish people enjoy great advantages that give them more options than most in the form of superior education, English as a first language, economic success, freedom of expression and movement, and proximity to some of the most vibrant economies of the world. The day that consensus stops changing in Ireland will be when the problem starts, not when consensus is in flux.
A brilliantly observed piece Conor. Very enjoyable. The Late Late vs Annie Murphy moment was indeed the tipping point for many at that time in Ireland imo. The rabid deniers of the time - in the audience and in life in general - seem to be an archetype now. Still here with us and more interested in being seen to be piously virtuous than anything else. You're probably right in saying consensus is driven by of social gains/status. 'We' seem to move as a whole unit whether it is for good or bad for any one of us. For that reason i think we are a long way from consensus collapse. Out there among the 'normies' and the younger ideologues there's another 5 to 10 years worth of zealous energy before they fall into cynicism, cronyism & abuses of power. it's a long game this life.
Ireland as a village: As an American college student spending a year at Trinity College in Dublin in 1971-72, I went with a half dozen fellow students to spend a weekend at a rental cottage in the west of the country. One fellow brought his girlfriend. This was a time when contraceptives were illegal in the Republic, and my friends would smuggle them in from NI. We're standing on a street corner in Limerick and he turns to kiss his girlfriend. Just then a cousin of hers happens to drive by, and sees them. Complications ensue. Truly a village.
Great write up. I live in a Dublin area many might regard as terrifying but it's grand. From my limited perspective there seems to be a generous Irish mentality that wants to help everyone that is being tested and there seems to be a dawning question as to whether the cead mile failte is really possible or sustainable in the long term m
I last lived in Ireland in the 60s and 70s. During that period, what you might term a 1916 cultural consciousness dominated all public life — rebel songs and traditional music in pubs, tri-colours everywhere, the Easter lily, etc. That all seemed to die down in recent years — visit of Queen Elizabeth II and uncritical media adoration of EU, cases in point. It's hard not to notice now that whereas the anti-uncontrolled immigration protests associate themselves with old emotive words like "plantation" and enthusiastic waving of the tricolour, at yesterday's 'Irelandforall' demo there were more Palestinian flags than Irish tricolours, and Christy More, far removed from his old Planxty days, chose to sing as tear-jerker an International brigade anthem rather than any of his old green bangers. I suspect that the anti uncontrolled immigration crowd, tapping as they do into sentiments that run historically far deeper than this johnny come lately globalism, have a very good chance of pushing over this latest 'consensus '. 'Ireland for the Irish' has done it before, quite suddenly.
Nice piece Conor- I have never lived in Ireland. I wonder is Ireland more consenus policed now.. My father can remember in the 60s maybe not tensions but perhaps a knowledge that people disagreed on the civil war. My Grandfather is RTE wincing about Fathers McDyers land reforms.
We had one vote ever on immigration (caused by doctors and midwives going public) and it was voted in with 79%. The current opinion polls have 65% saying too many people came in last year. Gay marriage passed with 62% and that's a done deal and a sign of how Ireland has "moved on". The support for immigration (unlimited, let's be honest) completely collapsed last year because the state decided to lie to everyone and is continuing to do so.
They're also waking up to the 5 Ds of modern liberalism. Deny, Downplay, Dodge, Deflect and Deny.
The biggest issue I had with the protest over the weekend was that they organised one in Sligo which I still can't believe. It's a complete "fuck you" to the victims and locals. Maybe next time they'll be having one at the Royal Canal in Tullamore. Or maybe that would just be to on-the-nose.
Oh and for readers wondering how Ireland works, a lad was at a protest and gave the local PBP counter-protestor some guff, said he'd never vote for him again. PBP lad smirked and said "I don't want your vote". Next day the guy goes to work and finds out that that guy, a public representative, rang the protestor's place of work to tell on him that he was at a far-right protest.
Brilliant piece Connor. And Ireland is very interesting, the consensus collapse after 1916 which enabled the establishment of the Irish state is a case in point.....it just goes to show that things can change very quickly, a lesson that we could do well to remember. I'm getting the impression that things might be heading for a tipping point soon in Ireland.....although the chattering classes in RTE and the Irish Times haven't realised it yet. And the polluted countryside, tottering power grid, broken health system and insane housing market are all like Jenga blocks being pulled out....one of these days the whole edifice will collapse.
Not Irish, no right to an opinion here other than I have spent a lot of time over decades in Limerick. My way in was friendship with a Irish guy who has dual citizenship and came to my state to do a job he said he couldn't get at home. It wasn't until I spent time with his family and friends in Ireland that I understood. Their family backed Michael Collins literally a century before and IT WAS STILL REMEMBERED that they didn't back de Valera (I use all caps to demonstrate my on-going incredulity). It affected everything the kids did. They couldn't get into university or into trade school. One of them who managed to become a journeyman electrician couldn't get a job until he moved himself and his family to NY. I think that has begun to change (remember, clueless outsider's viewpoint here) even as I watched but not being able to get a job institutionalized itself and everyone in the family went on the dole as a matter of course. This from a culture that gave the world Swift and Wilde and Yeats and other writers and artists too numerous to name, a mythology rich enough to challenge the Greeks', and a land of extraordinary physical beauty.
I’m the same age as you and emigrated from Ireland in 2012. I haven’t been back since before Covid, but even based on text message interactions with friends back home I can sense how they have changed over the last decade. From afar (I live in Southeast Asia) it’s easy to see that the last ten years have amounted to a cultural revolution unprecedented in Irish history, but my impression is that most people living there aren’t even that aware of it. The country is now merely a cultural satellite state of the US, complete with Black Lives Matter marches etc., so it’s interesting to see what happens when economic reality collides with an ideology that was created in another country with a completely different history.
Conor, how much of this can be attributed to the possibility that the Irish, politically speaking, are insecure about themselves and their cultural story? The cultural conformity seems to be a function of an inferiority complex.
What you say about Ireland, I think, could be extended to Twitter and all other "consensus-based societies."
I believe you are guilty of exceptionalism and a lack of comparative perspective here Conor. Consensus is the fundamental building block of any social order or grouping of people. It is the essence of democracy and even authoritarian governments, such as those of the UAE, Russia, Cuba or China, must be careful to monitor and manage consensus so as to avoid unrest. To talk of "consensus collapse" in Ireland therefore is inaccurate. Where there is little or no consensus, you get Somalia, revolution, and mass migrations of disaffected people. In stable polities such as Ireland, consensus is, and always must be, constantly in flux to facilitate external and internal change influences.
Historically, one can see how changes in consensus, and the rapidity thereof, have been influenced by developments in the nature of communication and media. First messengers, then books and newspapers, then radio and TV, and now the internet and social media have been instrumental in altering mores and beliefs and the speed at which these changes have happened has increased exponentially. Newspapers such as The Guardian were founded with the express intent of challenging contemporary social and political beliefs while, today, blogs such as yours are intended to play the exact same role but whereas you reach readers across the world instantly, in 1821 The Guardian reached few people outside Manchester and over a period of days and weeks.
As media and communication systems have developed, it has become possible to disseminate increasingly alternative and controversial viewpoints and minorities, even individuals, have great power to make themselves heard and to influence consensus across a plethora of issues, with both good and bad results (depending on our perspective, of course).
The catholic church, and its associated belief systems, constituted the core institutional influence on Irish society for centuries but, as the society developed, the benefits of adhering to the strictures laid down by the church, and overlooking its shortcomings, waned in favor of a critical stance on this institution and its influence. Similarly, while there was broad consensus that it was the right thing to agree to accept thousands of Ukrainian refugees in 2022, public opinion has shifted as the negative implications of this influx have begun to be felt. I got into serious trouble in 1978 for proposing that an inter-college debate address the question that Ireland should be given back to the Queen with an apology for making such a mess. I was nearly expelled. Today, the topic would be irrelevant.
You argue that going against the reigning consensus in Ireland is especially difficult due to the size of the country but I would suggest you reconsider this view from the perspective of a gay person in Uganda, a Dalit in an Indian village, a Republican academic in an ivy league university, a woman who does not want to cover her head in Iran, or a pro-choice activist in Brazil.
Swimming against the tide is never easy but Irish people enjoy great advantages that give them more options than most in the form of superior education, English as a first language, economic success, freedom of expression and movement, and proximity to some of the most vibrant economies of the world. The day that consensus stops changing in Ireland will be when the problem starts, not when consensus is in flux.
A brilliantly observed piece Conor. Very enjoyable. The Late Late vs Annie Murphy moment was indeed the tipping point for many at that time in Ireland imo. The rabid deniers of the time - in the audience and in life in general - seem to be an archetype now. Still here with us and more interested in being seen to be piously virtuous than anything else. You're probably right in saying consensus is driven by of social gains/status. 'We' seem to move as a whole unit whether it is for good or bad for any one of us. For that reason i think we are a long way from consensus collapse. Out there among the 'normies' and the younger ideologues there's another 5 to 10 years worth of zealous energy before they fall into cynicism, cronyism & abuses of power. it's a long game this life.
Keep writing.
Ireland as a village: As an American college student spending a year at Trinity College in Dublin in 1971-72, I went with a half dozen fellow students to spend a weekend at a rental cottage in the west of the country. One fellow brought his girlfriend. This was a time when contraceptives were illegal in the Republic, and my friends would smuggle them in from NI. We're standing on a street corner in Limerick and he turns to kiss his girlfriend. Just then a cousin of hers happens to drive by, and sees them. Complications ensue. Truly a village.
Great write up. I live in a Dublin area many might regard as terrifying but it's grand. From my limited perspective there seems to be a generous Irish mentality that wants to help everyone that is being tested and there seems to be a dawning question as to whether the cead mile failte is really possible or sustainable in the long term m
I last lived in Ireland in the 60s and 70s. During that period, what you might term a 1916 cultural consciousness dominated all public life — rebel songs and traditional music in pubs, tri-colours everywhere, the Easter lily, etc. That all seemed to die down in recent years — visit of Queen Elizabeth II and uncritical media adoration of EU, cases in point. It's hard not to notice now that whereas the anti-uncontrolled immigration protests associate themselves with old emotive words like "plantation" and enthusiastic waving of the tricolour, at yesterday's 'Irelandforall' demo there were more Palestinian flags than Irish tricolours, and Christy More, far removed from his old Planxty days, chose to sing as tear-jerker an International brigade anthem rather than any of his old green bangers. I suspect that the anti uncontrolled immigration crowd, tapping as they do into sentiments that run historically far deeper than this johnny come lately globalism, have a very good chance of pushing over this latest 'consensus '. 'Ireland for the Irish' has done it before, quite suddenly.
I like that you weaved these three together, something I'm often thinking about but have few to discuss such matters with! Great writing, thanks.
Nice piece Conor- I have never lived in Ireland. I wonder is Ireland more consenus policed now.. My father can remember in the 60s maybe not tensions but perhaps a knowledge that people disagreed on the civil war. My Grandfather is RTE wincing about Fathers McDyers land reforms.
"All has changed, changed utterly"
I love hearing stories like this, my mum and dad tell me stories from their youth and they sound late theyre from the late victorian era
We had one vote ever on immigration (caused by doctors and midwives going public) and it was voted in with 79%. The current opinion polls have 65% saying too many people came in last year. Gay marriage passed with 62% and that's a done deal and a sign of how Ireland has "moved on". The support for immigration (unlimited, let's be honest) completely collapsed last year because the state decided to lie to everyone and is continuing to do so.
They're also waking up to the 5 Ds of modern liberalism. Deny, Downplay, Dodge, Deflect and Deny.
The biggest issue I had with the protest over the weekend was that they organised one in Sligo which I still can't believe. It's a complete "fuck you" to the victims and locals. Maybe next time they'll be having one at the Royal Canal in Tullamore. Or maybe that would just be to on-the-nose.
Oh and for readers wondering how Ireland works, a lad was at a protest and gave the local PBP counter-protestor some guff, said he'd never vote for him again. PBP lad smirked and said "I don't want your vote". Next day the guy goes to work and finds out that that guy, a public representative, rang the protestor's place of work to tell on him that he was at a far-right protest.
Brilliant piece Connor. And Ireland is very interesting, the consensus collapse after 1916 which enabled the establishment of the Irish state is a case in point.....it just goes to show that things can change very quickly, a lesson that we could do well to remember. I'm getting the impression that things might be heading for a tipping point soon in Ireland.....although the chattering classes in RTE and the Irish Times haven't realised it yet. And the polluted countryside, tottering power grid, broken health system and insane housing market are all like Jenga blocks being pulled out....one of these days the whole edifice will collapse.
Not Irish, no right to an opinion here other than I have spent a lot of time over decades in Limerick. My way in was friendship with a Irish guy who has dual citizenship and came to my state to do a job he said he couldn't get at home. It wasn't until I spent time with his family and friends in Ireland that I understood. Their family backed Michael Collins literally a century before and IT WAS STILL REMEMBERED that they didn't back de Valera (I use all caps to demonstrate my on-going incredulity). It affected everything the kids did. They couldn't get into university or into trade school. One of them who managed to become a journeyman electrician couldn't get a job until he moved himself and his family to NY. I think that has begun to change (remember, clueless outsider's viewpoint here) even as I watched but not being able to get a job institutionalized itself and everyone in the family went on the dole as a matter of course. This from a culture that gave the world Swift and Wilde and Yeats and other writers and artists too numerous to name, a mythology rich enough to challenge the Greeks', and a land of extraordinary physical beauty.