I won't bother with the new Theroux documentary for the banal reason I've cancelled Netflix, but it seems to echo his previous work on the alt right. (Theroux has in fact said as much.) That documentary was interesting because it showed how out-dated his techniques have become.
Back in the 90s Theroux offered a rare glimpse into weird subcultures and people. Compared to what my Twitter feed can show me 24/7, the subjects of these old films are tame. Newspapers also frequently run pieces about modern weirdos like Clavicular, Andrew Tate et al. Theroux has lost his monopoly.
At the same time many of Theroux's prospective subjects are much more experienced in broadcasting themselves, and thus much harder for him to crack. Back in the 90s a UFO enthusiast maybe had a zine, but it was a rare privilege for a real journalist to come and film them. These days they would have their own YouTube channel, podcast and whatever else.
The last point is that Theroux has clearly become high on his own supply. Like anyone in show business, he always had ego, but he's now trading off his reputation to a far greater extent. (One alt right subject even wore a Theroux t-shirt during an interview.) The podcast format probably hasn't helped him, because the vacuum of hours of audio inevitably draws hosts to fill it with their own idle musings, and we can all talk about ourselves for days.
I remain a fan, but frankly his shtick doesn't work any more. If he wants to make another great documentary something needs to change.
1.digital age yes, in an era of catchy phrases, many would only skim the manosphere sites.
2. Who are taking most note of 'progressive' talking points. Is it more the pmc class professional management class?
3. The manosphere is somehow an extension of progressive culture. I need to think more about that.
4. Yes I don't like the manosphere caricature types who a bit moronic and needlessly
aggressive too. A sort of decorative superficial view of masculinity But
. This stigma attached to just being a man is a serious problem. It's one dimensional and reeks of sour sniping. It's fucked up what's termed the left but isn't that more liberal 'progressive'.
5 okay many men as well as women oppose domestic violence against women, for instance' but I'm also reactionary
6. Saying you are a feminist man sounds a bit fake to me. Do you have to and that doesn't mean necessarily that you will be fully accepted. You are for some ideologues after all, tainted by being a man
Still digging at the cultural coalface so we don’t have to Conor 👍🏻 I have to say I find the continued interest in getting Theroux to do this stuff really baffling. No-one needs TV to illuminate or explain any subculture any longer.
The only way I explain it to myself is in vaguely McLuhanesque terms - the point of getting Louis Theroux to do a documentary about internet mannequins is that the internet has consumed TV, TV doesn’t know it yet or won’t admit it, and so is “fighting” some sort of battle to regain supremacy. I’m sure the C-suite at Netflix don’t see themselves as underdogs, but they’ll eventually go the same way as QVC in the end also.
And anyway, Sacha Baron Cohen kind of did it better, didn’t he?
I don’t like baron cohen either for the same reason lol (plus some other stuff in his case…)
I think some people do need the explanations because you forget so many people are barely paying attention. It was surprising to look at reactions on TikTok and other places and find that a lot of this is brand new to some audiences. Mad! We’re in a bubble
Great essay, Conor. These manosphere types have always been with us. They just previously read Maxim magazine and wore tank tops. Some were Frank TJ Mackey clones.
I also detested these types because women always seemed to prefer them and their hulking biceps and cigars to my John Cusack attire and encyclopedic knowledge of Radiohead’s catalogue.
Fortunately, I’ve been out of the scene for 20 years now, but I bet that in spite of how much “progress and equality” we’ve achieved, I still wouldn’t stand a chance against the gym rat dooshers I seem to see out at restaurants. Though I still have a low opinion of them, I find myself wanting to defend them from progressive demonization.
I won't bother with the new Theroux documentary for the banal reason I've cancelled Netflix, but it seems to echo his previous work on the alt right. (Theroux has in fact said as much.) That documentary was interesting because it showed how out-dated his techniques have become.
Back in the 90s Theroux offered a rare glimpse into weird subcultures and people. Compared to what my Twitter feed can show me 24/7, the subjects of these old films are tame. Newspapers also frequently run pieces about modern weirdos like Clavicular, Andrew Tate et al. Theroux has lost his monopoly.
At the same time many of Theroux's prospective subjects are much more experienced in broadcasting themselves, and thus much harder for him to crack. Back in the 90s a UFO enthusiast maybe had a zine, but it was a rare privilege for a real journalist to come and film them. These days they would have their own YouTube channel, podcast and whatever else.
The last point is that Theroux has clearly become high on his own supply. Like anyone in show business, he always had ego, but he's now trading off his reputation to a far greater extent. (One alt right subject even wore a Theroux t-shirt during an interview.) The podcast format probably hasn't helped him, because the vacuum of hours of audio inevitably draws hosts to fill it with their own idle musings, and we can all talk about ourselves for days.
I remain a fan, but frankly his shtick doesn't work any more. If he wants to make another great documentary something needs to change.
Initial comments
1.digital age yes, in an era of catchy phrases, many would only skim the manosphere sites.
2. Who are taking most note of 'progressive' talking points. Is it more the pmc class professional management class?
3. The manosphere is somehow an extension of progressive culture. I need to think more about that.
4. Yes I don't like the manosphere caricature types who a bit moronic and needlessly
aggressive too. A sort of decorative superficial view of masculinity But
. This stigma attached to just being a man is a serious problem. It's one dimensional and reeks of sour sniping. It's fucked up what's termed the left but isn't that more liberal 'progressive'.
5 okay many men as well as women oppose domestic violence against women, for instance' but I'm also reactionary
6. Saying you are a feminist man sounds a bit fake to me. Do you have to and that doesn't mean necessarily that you will be fully accepted. You are for some ideologues after all, tainted by being a man
Still digging at the cultural coalface so we don’t have to Conor 👍🏻 I have to say I find the continued interest in getting Theroux to do this stuff really baffling. No-one needs TV to illuminate or explain any subculture any longer.
The only way I explain it to myself is in vaguely McLuhanesque terms - the point of getting Louis Theroux to do a documentary about internet mannequins is that the internet has consumed TV, TV doesn’t know it yet or won’t admit it, and so is “fighting” some sort of battle to regain supremacy. I’m sure the C-suite at Netflix don’t see themselves as underdogs, but they’ll eventually go the same way as QVC in the end also.
And anyway, Sacha Baron Cohen kind of did it better, didn’t he?
I don’t like baron cohen either for the same reason lol (plus some other stuff in his case…)
I think some people do need the explanations because you forget so many people are barely paying attention. It was surprising to look at reactions on TikTok and other places and find that a lot of this is brand new to some audiences. Mad! We’re in a bubble
Great essay, Conor. These manosphere types have always been with us. They just previously read Maxim magazine and wore tank tops. Some were Frank TJ Mackey clones.
I also detested these types because women always seemed to prefer them and their hulking biceps and cigars to my John Cusack attire and encyclopedic knowledge of Radiohead’s catalogue.
Fortunately, I’ve been out of the scene for 20 years now, but I bet that in spite of how much “progress and equality” we’ve achieved, I still wouldn’t stand a chance against the gym rat dooshers I seem to see out at restaurants. Though I still have a low opinion of them, I find myself wanting to defend them from progressive demonization.
Seduce and Destroy!!!💪
Another very interesting piece. I will post my perspective when I have reread your piece and thought about this more.